Battlestar Galactica: A complaint
[Originally published at the now defunct group blog explananda.com]
In the fictional world of Battlestar Galactica it is a fact of no little consequence that Cylons are virtually indistinguishable from humans, right down to the cellular level. And yet they’re different in all kinds of ways! For example, when they get killed, their consciousness gets uploaded so that they can just jump right into another body. But if they’re indistinguishable from humans right down to the cellular level then by what mechanism is this accomplished? And this is just the beginning of the features that supposedly make them very different from humans. The writers of the show seem to me to be making a really stupid move somewhere in the vicinity of this common mistake.
I’m not sure why this irritates me so much. I can suspend disbelief for an impressive variety of fictional worlds. But this! This I can hardly stand. Perhaps it’s because the mistake here is one that I see in serious contexts, whereas journalists don’t typically go around talking about star trek transporters as though we have currently working models. Anyway. Yeeeeearg.
Comments
Author: upyernoz
Date: 2008-04-24
there’s a difference between “virtually indistinguishable” and actually the same. just because the human characters can’t tell a cylon from a human doesn’t mean there are no differences at all.
in the first season they did hint that there was some biological differences between the two species. remember? baltar was working on a cylon detector, which (if i am remembering correctly from 3 years ago when i saw the episode) actually did work. it accurately identified a cylon but no one knew because baltar lied about it to the others.
and there also have been some hints as to the mechanism of the resurrections. there is a range for the resurrection chambers, for example. is that enough to satisfy you? the show probably won’t get into the mechanism unless or until the humans discover it, or try to discover it. is it really any worse of a show if no one ever bothers writing that particular storyline?
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-24
Oh please! That’s very far from satisfying me. Little differences won’t cut it here. In order to be the sort of creature who could upload consciousness upon death, Cylons would have to be very different from human beings. Very!
Author: Paul
Date: 2008-04-24
I guess they’re more concerned with super(con)venience than, well, you know…
Author: Spaz
Date: 2008-04-25
The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
Tom Waits
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you’re dead.
Tom Waits
If you don’t settle down I’m turning the car around this minute.
Specially fortified with snark.
It’s a trap! Admiral Akbar
Missing the point to the point of annoyance…AH-gain.
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-25
Huh?
Author: Spaz
Date: 2008-04-25
Just watch the show and enjoy it…this is in part why Yoon and your family question your movie choices…the shows got grit, fare acting, great plot turns (though I think it’s a good thing this is the last season), suitable action, and hot babes. What more could a sci-fi fan want?
They could have kept the Cylons as the robots, which would have been far less interesting and as pointed out above by Upyernoz they’ve given enough of an element of explanation to satisfy most as to their differences from humans.
“I’m not sure why this irritates me so much. I can suspend disbelief for an impressive variety of fictional worlds. But this! This I can hardly stand.”
Sheesh, it’s not Jar Jar!?
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-25
I can’t focus on the plot or the babes when they’re making basic conceptual mistakes. I can’t! I won’t! And that’s not even mentioning the “frack” issue.
Author: Kegri
Date: 2008-04-25
i bet we could get dana to confess to harbouring a fancy for the madame president.
Author: Kegri
Date: 2008-04-25
oh - btw - let’s be honest here - cy’s main issue is: TOO MANY BLONDS!
Author: Kegri
Date: 2008-04-25
arrgh. blondes.
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-25
Wait, why Dana in particular? And I assume you mean former-roommate-busted-once-by-Kegri-while-buying-a-Hustler Dana?
Author: upyernoz
Date: 2008-04-25
I can’t focus on the plot or the babes when they’re making basic conceptual mistakes.
but there is no actual mistake. it’s true they haven’t fully explained the resurrection mechanism, but that’s not a mistake. it’s only a mistake if they explain it in a way that contradicts something else.
and they haven’t explained faster-than-light travel, or where they get their oxygen from either.
Little differences won’t cut it here. In order to be the sort of creature who could upload consciousness upon death, Cylons would have to be very different from human beings. Very!
why? have you studied a bunch of creatures with upload capacity and found that the ability requires major differences?
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-25
I don’t need to study creatures with upload capacity or even to know anything about Cylons beyond the fact that they’re practically indistinguishable from humans. That’s because humans are so very far from having an upload capacity that any creature practically indistinguishable from them would be just about as far from having that capacity. And if we imagine the smallest possible changes required to give Cylons an upload capacity then those changes, I submit, would be the sorts of changes that would allow them to distinguish Cylons from humans reasonably easily.
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-25
Also, I can’t believe Anne isn’t helping me out here. Come on, Anne. Tell me annoys you too.
Author: Nick
Date: 2008-04-25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedantic
Author: Nick
Date: 2008-04-25
I too am horrified by BSG. It’s as if they didn’t even bother have an epistemologist look the script over.
How can I take the show seriously when there is no mention at all of daggits? There is absolutely no way that a civilization that technologically advanced would not have mass produced robotic pets.
And please, how am I to believe that Ms. Tatonka could have become Secretary of Education when she couldn’t even speak English until middle age?
And where the hell is Dirk Benedict?
Author: upyernoz
Date: 2008-04-26
And if we imagine the smallest possible changes required to give Cylons an upload capacity then those changes, I submit, would be the sorts of changes that would allow them to distinguish Cylons from humans reasonably easily.
and that must be true because you know how a real upload mechanism must work.
i still don’t get why this bothers you more than the FTL thing. is it because faster than light travel has a staple of sci fi shows fr decades? i mean, unlike upload capacity, present science actually has decreed that FTL is impossible.
And where the hell is Dirk Benedict?
he’s in the BSG video game.
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-26
Actually, I don’t get why this bothers me more than the FTL thing. There’s a consistency problem here, to be sure. My guess in my post was just that this aspect of BSG seems to be related to a common mistake in thinking about the relation between the mental and the physical. I see that mistake in a lot of science journalism, and it drives me nuts there. So perhaps that’s why it sets me off in a fictional context. Also, as Nick helpfully points out, I’m very pedantic.
Author: upyernoz
Date: 2008-04-26
if you look at all the instances of popular entertainment that address the mind-body problem even implicitly, i’d bet at least 90% come down as dualists. it just reflects the tacit popular understanding of the issue. which is why it doesn’t bother me at all.
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-26
if you look at all the instances of popular entertainment that address the mind-body problem even implicitly, i’d bet at least 90% come down as dualists. it just reflects the tacit popular understanding of the issue. which is why it bothers me very much.
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-26
Actually, more seriously, I think BSG really lays out this kind of thinking especially clearly. That’s probably why I notice it more than I do elsewhere.
Author: Kegri
Date: 2008-04-26
dana was the one with the sally forth fetish…
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-26
My God, I had completely forgotten that. You have a great memory for your past cruelties, don’t you?
Author: Kegri
Date: 2008-04-26
it would be a shame to let that one fade with time, don’t you think?
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-27
Anyway, Nick, I’d like to see your reaction if a tv show plot hinged on a distortion of sound baseball statistical principles, ya big hypocrite.
Author: Kegri
Date: 2008-04-27
hmm…that’s a pretty good counter, sir niik. i can see it now - they’re losing the season, and they manage to pick up joe carter, brandon inge (intangibles) and derek jeter, thus propelling them to certain victory!
Author: Kegri
Date: 2008-04-27
derek jeter, of course, for his clutch defense!
Author: ben wolfson
Date: 2008-04-27
The philosopher is upset at what appears to be a violation of some supervenience thesis or other.
Author: Chris
Date: 2008-04-28
Yes indeed, Ben. Now where is your expression of solidarity?
